Changes between Initial Version and Version 1 of ClusterCProjReview20090708Notes

Timestamp:

07/22/09 17:24:58 (15 years ago)

Author:

Christopher Small

Comment:

--

ClusterCProjReview20090708Notes

@@ +1 @@
+= Cluster C Review =
+
+''July 8, 2009''
+
+== Attendees ==
+
+ * Chip Elliot
+ * Aaron Falk
+ * Yao Luo
+ * Larry Lannom
+ * Paul Barford
+ * Evan Zhang
+ * Heidi Picher Dempsey
+ * Christopher Small (GPO)
+ * Jim Griffioen
+ * Justin Cappos
+ * Rob Ricci
+ * Vic Thomas
+ * Nick Feamster
+
+== Intro ''(Aaron and Chip)'' ==
+
+Goals for today's meeting.
+
+'''Paul Barford''' This is a woefully underfunded project and has
+amazing promise. What about some of the $3B stimulus money?
+
+== ProtoGENI ''(Rob Ricci)'' ==
+
+Atlanta is the next most important PoP for Rob.
+
+Implementations for CH, CM, Slice Authority (all are fairly
+functional); RSpec for creating slices with topology (within site
+VLANs, between sites tunnels). Functional federation; can get slices
+that span seven sites, with complex topology. Authentication and
+authorization system. Backbone deployment progressing.
+
+Have worked with about 1/2 of all spiral 1 projects.
+
+ * Some important pieces not in the control framework, e.g. cross-CM
+coordination, relinquish tickets.
+
+ * Lots of projects to coordinate with, not all integrations are as
+tight as they would like.
+
+ * Lots of bureaucratic hassles; University of Utah not used to this
+kind of contract.
+
+The University has gotten very interested in the fact that they are
+installing a separate (not controlled by university IT) backbone link;
+concerned about security, privacy, and liability issues. Rob has
+pointed them at Larry Peterson's document on doing this. GPO is
+interested in their help in getting recommendations on how to do this.
+
+Simple clearinghouse up and running. Several registries, Trust anchor
+for federation. Seven federates: Utah x 2 , Kentucky, Wisc, UML, BBN,
+CMU.
+
+Backbone will be all layer 2 or below, VLAN based. Have been working
+with Internet2, HP, IU, GPO to make this happen. Will provide transit for
+SPP. Campus/regional out connections soon at Utah, Wisc, MAX,
+GpENI. Early exporation with UKY, GATech, ISI. Talking with Internet2 about
+DCN.
+
+At Univ Utah talking with UEN (Utah Educational Network); UEN is
+building a metro fiber ring around SLC, hits campus and the Level 3
+PoP. Plan is to get 10Gbps wave on this fiber.
+
+'''Paul Barford''' Our CIO (Ron Kramer) represents WiscNet (regional entity in
+Wisconsin). Wisc runs BOREAS-Net (Broadband Optical Research, Education and
+Sciences Network) that spans three states, etc. He is very interested in GENI;
+we could relatively easily put together a consortium of CIOs to put together
+regional deployment -- not just Internet2 and NLR -- get a GENI wave across all of
+the regional deployments. It will be work, but there are resources available
+and the will to do it with this group, and GENI could dramatically expand the
+footprint with little resources.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' Maybe early fall we should put together a meeting.
+
+'''Heidi Picher Dempsey''' There is a working group in Quilt for GENI
+that is already thinking about some of these issues.
+
+'''Aaron Falk''' Good insight that campus CIOs are influentional in
+the regions, we should pursue this.
+
+I'm the primary PoC for all of the inter-project connections. 
+
+Talking with Internet2 to get tail circuits (using DCN) to other
+campuses. Internet2 views DCN connections as ephemeral (policy, not
+technical), which may not be a good match for GENI. We might need to
+convince them to let us have long-lived DCN connections.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' How has working with Internet2 been?
+
+'''Justin Cappos''' UW has been connected since 1999. We aren't
+thinking about layer 2 VLANs.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' We'd love to have your campus GENI-enabled. Same
+with UML. We'll gladly help.
+
+'''Aaron Falk''' GENI's utility goes up as the number of connected
+users goes up; you can be advisors and advocates to campuses.
+
+'''Larry Lannom''' What is the simplest test for a campus being "GENI
+enabled"?
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' If it can be controlled via ProtoGENI, it's GENI
+enabled. It'd be great if you stood up a small ProtoGENI or Emulab
+it'd be great.
+
+'''Rob Ricci''' We have shipped nodes to some of o the other campuses
+in this cluster, and controlled from Utah -- little or no local
+administration.
+
+'''Larry Lannom''' We're not on MAX or Internet2, we could be, given funds.
+
+'''Paul Barford''' One of the success stories of PlanetLab was their
+very simple method of joining PlanetLab, simple setup, a couple of
+machines on the internet -- if you give us two machines at your site,
+you can be part of this great infrastructure.
+
+'''Justin Cappos''' This is part of our story -- you download this
+software, you're part of Million-node GENI.
+
+'''Rob Ricci''' I have some money to buy some machines -- there are
+some at Wisc -- and the reason we haven't gone further is that
+coordination on the sending side takes a lot of effort. But we could
+do more of it.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' Let's work together on this.
+
+If DCN works out, all you have to do is turn it on.
+
+'''Heidi Picher Dempsey''' From what I've heard the software isn't
+really there yet.
+
+'''Jim Griffioen''' The reason that it might be attractive to us is
+that Internet2 comes to the regional, but not all the way to us. DCN
+may be the easiest way for us to get a VLAN.
+
+'''Paul Barford''' We're planning on doing a lot of things with VLANs,
+but VLANs are not a panacea. All kinds of weird things happen when you
+start multiplexing over VLANs, stuff you can't imagine. The most
+attractive option for me for GENI would be to have separate lambdas
+for everyone. It's never been clear in my mind where this is all going
+to go.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' The GPO view is to go to VLANs on Spiral 1, but it's
+not obvious that that's what we want to be using in Spiral 3.
+
+'''Heidi Picher Dempsey''' It's amazing how much push-back we're
+getting trying to get people to use anything but IP!
+
+'''Paul Barford''' I'd really like to have vendors here at the table
+telling us what is available, what their stuff does, so we can explore
+more options.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' That's a good idea, we're heading there I think.
+
+ProtoGENI is (theoretically) available to a few thousand
+experimenters, but they don't know it. I've been holding off on
+recruiting users waiting to hear on our round 2 proposal, largely for
+interface issues; GENI is less than what Emulab users are used to.
+
+The control framework API and tools, as we've defined it, is not
+enough for what users need. We need more services and basic setup
+stuff for researchers to be successful.
+
+'''Paul Barford''' Our experience with WAIL is that without good
+tools, the learning curve is too long for people to pick it up. Need a
+front-end that makes the experience for users simpler. Just got
+Cybertrust funding for a tool for Emulab that helps you repeat a
+configuration, publish an experiment, provides pre-configured
+environments for different types of experiments (e.g. honeynet,
+botnet, ...). If there is any way to do this in GENI so a student or a
+researcher could sit down at a dashboard and push some buttons and get
+an experiment running, it'll really help get GENI off the ground.
+
+'''Aaron Falk''' We're completely in sync with this. It wasn't in
+spiral 1, we're thinking about it for spiral 2.
+
+'''Jim Griffioen''' The interface is difficult to use, and little
+documentation, so it's pretty difficult to talk about instrumentation.
+
+'''Jim Griffioen''' I see the backbone evolving as the PlanetLab
+backbone did. A lot of campuses are on Internet2, but a lot are on the
+regular internet. The backbone is connectivity no matter how you get
+it. A lot of us will try to get on the wave links, if we can.
+
+Once our switches get deployed in Internet2 PoPs, we'll manage them
+the same way we do in Emulab, we won't overprovision them.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' Right now we have a lambda from NLR and a lambda
+from Internet2, and in the next few weeks we'll start attaching
+equipment on it. Some people want to run repeatable experiments, and
+they'll migrate off the internet onto this.
+
+The only real difference between Emulab and DETER is that DETER doesn't
+provide publicly routable addresses; nodes have to be behind a NAT.
+
+'''Paul Barford''' Containment is a seurious issue. The community needs
+to think about what it means to run larger scale security
+experiments. Arguably, the community doesn't really know how to do
+repeatable experiments under laboratory conditions of this kind.  We
+need to think carefully about what is required to bootstrap
+experiments, and how to run them.
+
+'''Heidi Picher Dempsey''' There is this tension between "you can
+connect anywhere via the internet, but you don't know how you're
+connected", and "here is a fixed, repeatable network topology, but
+it's hard to get onto it."
+
+=== Milestones ===
+
+Integrate, install 3 nodes in Internet2 -- waiting for switches, not arrived,
+this date will slip.
+
+Next two milestones are blocked on this one, but should fall out as soon as
+the switches are up. 
+
+Support experiments on ProtoGENI cluster -- we're already there, except for
+not running on the Internet2 backbone. And last milestone is also well underway.
+
+== Instrumentation Tools ''(Jim Griffioen)'' ==
+
+About 70 machines available, will be more useful after we get OpenVZ (a
+virtualization environment) on them. They are connected to ProtoGENI.
+
+Some of the software we're running doesn't understand virtual interfaces
+(e.g. tcpdump). We need more experience with that. 
+
+We've had some conversations with the GMOC about what we're measuring and
+how. We're trying to grab experiment-specific data; they are interested in
+global information.
+
+One problem with the API is that it's designed around users, not groups. If
+I'm teaching a class, I have students, I have a TA, want some sharing, some
+restrictions. 
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' CF working group should talk about this.
+
+I have a paper -- Heidi has a pointer to it.
+
+UK now has a 10Gbps Internet2 link, will be putting in a second "research"
+link to Internet2 (which will be shared with other departments). No VLAN
+support planned at this time (although it might be possible over the
+new link). Right now using GRE tunnels. Have discussed implementing
+DCN with Internet2 and KRON.
+
+'''Aaron Falk''' Dynamic VLANs are not a requirement; having static
+VLANs you can run non-IP layer 2 experiments, which would be great.
+
+Lots of researchers have access via ProtoGENI -- although most of them
+don't know it. Not ready for class use yet, still gets rebooted and
+reinstalled every couple of weeks. (Would like to use it for operating
+systems/distributed systems course in spiral 2.) Want to use it with
+our FIND research.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' It would be great to give tutorials to researchers
+(how to use it), professors (how to teach classes on it).
+
+'''Paul Barford''' Been teaching a network systems course in WAIL for
+years, it could be generalized to work on GENI. It's been very
+popular. Anyone who wants it is welcome to it. Of the 50 people who
+have taken this class, 20 have been hired by Cisco.
+
+=== Milestones ===
+
+2nd milestone: Jim went the extra mile to update his software and be
+more interactive with ProtoGENI, integrate more often. So although the
+milestone was a little bit late, the effort was above and beyond what
+was agreed to, so the minor slippage is not an issue.
+
+== DTunnels ''(Nick Feamster)'' ==
+
+Design Requirements for BGPMux
+
+Sesison transparency (BGP looks like adirect conect), session
+stability (no transient behavior visible to upstream nets), isolation
+(individual networks able to set own policies, foward independently),
+scalability (support many networks).
+
+The last two are still in progress.  The first two are being used in
+the prototype now.
+
+Reviewed BGP mux functions in slightly more detail---we've seen this
+before, so I'm not making notes on it.
+
+Year 1 progress:
+
+ * DTunnels:  Kernel patches to create Ethernet GRE tunnels Interface for
+  specifying topology in XML and instantiating topology in OpenVS
+  (ProtoGENI nodes will run) Still need to discuss RSPECs more to make
+  BGPMux RSPEC fit in with ProtoGENI RSPECs
+
+ * BGP Mux:  Design and implementatio of control plane Deployment in three
+  locations: GT, Wisc, PSG.   Will demo data plane at GEC5
+
+'''Paul Barford''' Do you used differnt AS numbers for each site?
+
+No, we are using one AS for all sites. Challenges were a combination
+of logistical for things like AS number, and hacking for GRETunnels
+and IPTables mapping.
+
+Integration Progress in Spiral 1:
+
+ * DTunnels:  Instantiate topology from an XML spec that resembls and RSPEC initial
+  discussions about how to make RSPEC and XML spec have more in common
+
+ * BGP Mux:  Install Mux nodes on same subnets as ProtoGENI nodes.  Will get two
+  PG nodes assigned to BGPMux and then try running the BGPMux on them.
+  Would like GEC5 to demo this.
+
+No RSpec integration yet; need an AM
+
+ * I2 progress:  I2 is accepting BGP advertisements from Georgia Tech, PSGNet (not
+  Wisconsin) Soeme filtering on commodity links due to rwois/IRR
+  problems
+
+DTunnels I2 connections doesn't really apply, but we do have the
+option of previsioning between deployed sites.  Just using GRETunnels
+now.
+
+First Experiment with Jen Rexford at Princeton, NameCast. CNS
+resolvers at multiple sites and advertised on a common IP prefix.
+Service advertises and withdraws BGP routes to control how traffic
+reaches the service.  Deployment in progress at Georgia Tech.  This
+experiment was designed for VINI, but there's no VINI at Wisconsin, so
+need to work on ProtoGENI.
+
+Next experiment will be somethign that requires virtual
+networks/tunneling behind the mux.
+
+Have to be careful about things like advertising BGPMux as a transit
+net and causing trouble in the rest of the network when this is
+deployed and used by many people, not just friends and family.
+
+ * Spiral 2 plans:
+  * More experiments
+  * Integrate AM with ProtoGENI
+   *  Automate BGP Mux setup from RSpec
+  * Integrate with other control frameworks
+
+Some discussion about status of BGPMux milestones.  Some are being
+changed, so wiki status will be revised when Aaron and Nick close that
+out.
+
+== Measurement System ''(Paul Barford)'' ==
+
+GIMS aggregate manager controls the instrumentation plane. Basic model
+is that there are multiple sensors, managed by the GIMS aggregate
+manager.  Researchers select which sensors they want to use in their
+experiment, which kinds of packets to gather in the experiment.
+
+Sensor can use a high performance packet capture card (cost about $4K
+for the card, provide a GPS timestamp). There is a new Intel NIC that
+comes on the motherboard of new machines; it splits streams across
+multiple cores, may be able to do the work we need for substantially
+less. Not generally programmable, but does what we need. Total system
+cost under $2K per sensor node. Old NICs start dropping packets at
+300-400 pps.  
+
+Will demo at GEC5.
+
+High management overhead + low publication opportunity makes the
+program a challenge.
+
+There is a fluidity to the GENI architecture which makes designing for
+it difficult.
+
+We did a redesign of the GIMS architecture and the GIMS sensor
+architecture.
+
+Upgraded WAIL to GENI. WAIL users can access GIMS, GENI, and GENI
+users access to WAIL. GIMS UI extension for PRotoGENI underway, will
+demo at GEC5.
+
+No WAN connections to date. NLR will support GIMS deployment, have not
+officially solicited Internet2.
+
+Spiral 2, want to expand suite, move from prototype to v1.0, and
+deploy GIMS on GENI (with minimal scope).
+
+Daryl Veitch is working with him on timing.  High-perf packet capture
+cards come with GPS capabiity.
+
+Chips says GENI could engineer a tier 1 stratum.  Million node GENI
+would like to use it if it existed.  Someone would have to propose it
+and get it funded of course.  Paul noted that he and Daryl are
+skeptical about how well current stratum 1s are actually synchronized.
+
+Chip said we will have to address the lack of ethernet frame info in
+this project, since GENI is being built based on eth VLANs for
+prototypes.
+
+Paul said his work is a complement to Jim's.  Jim might be able to use
+pub/sub interface to GIMS.  Difference has to do with Paul owning the
+sensor and Jim not.  May need some kind of shim to make Jim's stuff
+able to use it.
+
+Other measurement infrastructures that have been deployed: NEMEY,
+Surveyor, laely move towards end-host application measurements, but
+Paul is trying to cover the in-network measurements.
+
+Chip and Paul discussed the need for better funding for building
+testbeds.  Need to convince NSF that it needs better funding.  Should
+we have the meeting of a dozen blue-ribbon people who are
+participating in testbeds and make recommendations to NSF.  If a dozen
+of leading people in the US are saying it is needed, maybe they will
+listen.
+
+Larry points out that the digital library people had the same problem
+10 years ago and they failed.  The GRID people have "money running out
+their ears" for this kind of thing.
+
+Jason said what about MRI funding?  Can only submit 3 proposals per
+campus.
+
+GENI architecture is complicated and fluid. Coming up with measurement
+AM was a new approach ad harder than the original idea.  Redesigns
+will still be required in the future.
+
+WAIL has been upgraded to ProtoGENI API.
+
+NLR deployment was original plan, haven't talked to I2 about deployment yet.
+
+Can build interfaces to other projects outside the cluster.  Sensors
+and AM are designed to be general and extensible.
+
+Working closely with BGP mux project.  Paul will try to come up with
+experiments to measure what BGP mux is doing to integrate more
+closely.
+
+SEER wrapper from DETER (Schwab) might be extended to be useful with
+GIMS for experimenter.  SEER is built on emulab APIs.  Could port to
+ProtoGENI API instead.
+
+Probably Y2 deployments are likely to be off Gigabit links nearer to
+campus edges than cores.
+
+     
+=== Milestones ===
+
+ * Develop set of specifications. It's kind of a general description or
+   narrative. 
+
+ * Develop test suite. Harpoon-based suite, complete.
+
+ * Develop prototype that can be deployed and demonstrated in WAIL. Done, will
+   demo at GEC5. 
+
+Looks like basically all done. The specifications need some refinement.
+
+== Programmable Edge Node (PEN) ''(Yan Luo)'' ==
+
+In year 1, acquired and assembled a PEN multi-core server with
+network-processor-based acceleration card (Netronome NFE-i8000).
+Acquired switch, PCs. Integrated with Emulab/ProtoGENI. Use Netronome
+Flow Manager to establish up to 256 virtual NICs.
+
+PEN modified the DB to give it the illustion that it has several
+physical nodes, even though they are actually virtual nodes.  The rest
+of the work could be done on the client side.
+
+Integration was a challenge. Emulab source base is huge, and not all
+that completely documented.
+
+'''Rob Ricci''' A big (250 page) document is coming.
+
+=== Spiral 2 goals ===
+
+Want deployable PEN node ready (regression test, bill of materials, user
+guide, wiki) by 10/01/09. Work with University of Utah to deploy two PENs in
+Internet2 backbone. Enhance the measurement and diagnosis capabilities of NP
+card. Support external research on PEN.
+
+'''Heidi Picher Dempsey''' Does it have to be in the Internet2 PoPs? It's expensive.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' This seems like an interesting match for BGPMux; you
+should talk to Nick Feamster.
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' Do you expect researchers to program the network cards?
+
+'''Yao Luo''' We'll program the network cards, not researchers.
+
+=== Milestones ===
+
+All of the milestones were done on time, one was done far in advance.
+
+== Million Node GENI ''(Justin Cappos)'' ==
+
+2 programmers and 15 undergrads working on this project over the summer
+
+Built Repy (VM), Node Manager, Seash (shell) experiment manger
+(similar to PLUSH)
+
+Prototyped SeattleGENI (component manager/clearinghouse) This tracks
+your "donations" of systems and gives you credit for them.  When you
+donate more, you get more allocated to you.  (Basically VMs).
+
+Collaborated:  PLab, PgENI, ProtoGENI, DOR
+
+Publications at SIGCSE, PN-ASEE/WCERT, NW-DCSD workshops, 12 talks
+
+This project is heavily geared towards education.  What teachers want
+to do is either run on a WAN or on a LAN.  LAN is easier to debug.
+Obviously researchers will have different requirements that we might
+be able to add.
+
+Paul B. mentioned CONDOR GRID computing environment.  Wondered whether
+million node GENI could get access to Condor nodes (there are over
+100,000).  Justin says yes, they've thought about it, and also
+similarly with the @Home project.  The issue is the trust model
+because Million Node GENI will allow ANYONE to have an account, but GRID and other
+projects have more restrictions.
+
+VM is based on Python, and is custom to Million Node GENI.  
+
+Chip asks what kind of resources: Disk, processing, memory, network
+bandwidth, hardware random number generator...15-20 resources are
+restricted by Million Node GENI VM now.  Million Node GENI measures based on Justin's Mac laptop
+to decide how much to limit resources.
+
+Expected security model for Million Node GENI is to restrict traffic to within the
+"testbed."  VMs in a tesbed talk to each other, but nothing is an exit
+node elsewhere.  There may be other models too, but this seems to be
+the most likely.
+
+Testbed this year went up over 1000 nodes. This counts anything that's
+ever been up.
+
+Had to adapt to firewalls.  Not looking for more end users.
+
+Time goes backwards on modern machines frequently
+
+ProtoGENI clearinghouse integration.  Demo version will run at GEC5.
+Seattle runnning on ProtoGENI.  Includes AutoGrader, gets Emulab
+resources, deploys Seattle, deploys student code and then makes grade.
+This is supposed to be repeatable.
+
+Have been discussing whether it makes sense for Million Node GENI to
+use ProtoGENI control framework.  Million Node GENI belives there is a
+problem with that.  Million Node GENI doesn't have a notion of a lot
+of things that are calls in ProtoGENI (for example booting a node).
+
+Might want to implement the interface but not the semantics.  Might
+want to build absolute bare minimum interface to ProtoGENI for what
+Million Node GENI wants to do.
+
+Chip asked about where integration is going with Million Node GENI.
+Million Node GENI says they want people to be able to use Million Node
+GENI through a GENI control framework, but not the other way around.
+To combine Million Node GENI with something else, you would use a tap
+on Million Node GENI that lets a random internet node to act like a
+Million Node GENI node even thought it doesn't show up as a general
+purpose Million Node GENI node.
+
+Rob said he'd like to be able to have the notiion of a slice in
+Million Node GENI.  Justin said you can (but it souds like there are
+complications with this).
+
+Chip asked about whether it runs on handsets.  Justin said they've
+done proof of concept on Nokia 0800, jailbroken Iphones, One laptop
+per child notebook.  Couldn't do Windows mobile despite significant
+effort.
+
+Chip asked about privacy concerns, especially with handsets and
+location information.  Can route traffic through TOR and have this
+information be hidden.  If the information isn't hidden, experiments
+can take advantage of the location information.  This is a different
+model than the cloud projects because the node will be ON your own
+network.
+
+Million Node GENI will work on adding some UW nodes to GENI via I2.
+
+Aaron said it would be good to know whether nodes were on GENI-enabled
+infrastructure.
+
+Currently used in 6 classes.  Suport from NW-DCSD.  Want more adoption
+this fall.  Easier for students to do experiments in this environment
+than in others.
+
+ * Spiral 2 plans
+
+ * Increasing support for researchers/developers
+  * Installer/end user interface
+  * Repy v0.2 node manager (performance improvements, resource reassignment, measurement)
+  * Services
+  * Spec for end-host Clearinghouse API
+   * Prototype end-host Clearinghouse
+    * mash ups
+    * identiy management
+ * Collaborate with O&M and security
+ * GENI outreach
+
+Vic asked about how ProtoGENI interface works.  There's a slice
+defined for Seattle.  Emulab resources can be "owned" by Seattle on
+behalf of Million Node GENI users.
+
+On status Vic asked about status for tutorial (could be called done in
+Justin's opinion).  Also discussed RSPECs--still working on
+definitions of that.
+
+Aaron pointed out that GENI reallly needs to be able to glue slices
+into parts of Million Node GENI to make it useful---can't just
+
+Million Node GENI would like to have people deploy on Windows machines
+to help them with debugging.  HPD to follow up on the possibility of
+deploying some Windows boxes on our BBN Emulab site.
+
+HPD asked if GpENI install of Million Node GENI used anything but just
+access the GpENI Plab node.  No.  But it was a good node to add
+because it has ssh access, which most nodes don't.
+
+=== Milestones ===
+
+== Digital Object Registry ''(Larry Lannom)'' ==
+
+Explained the background of the Handle System and the Digital Object
+Registry.
+
+Has grown up in a DoD environment in the past 3 years or so.
+
+Larry put up a chart of terms for GFC (GENI Federated Clearinghouse of
+CNRI), ProtoGENI, and Million Node GENI
+
+Rob commented that all CMs in ProtoGENi are also AMs.  There are are
+no CMs that only do single components.
+
+ * Spiral 2 goals
+  * Clearinghouse:
+    * defined a normalized and interoperable GENI clearinghouse specificatoin
+    * provide our sw to new and existing projects
+    * federate individual clearinghouse s into the GFC allowing researchers to discover resources across GENI.
+  * Security:
+    * Integrate and make available the propsoed PKI solution (from CNRI).  Has been running for at least a decade.
+  * Identifiers
+
+Scholarly publishers are current most frequent users of the Handle system.
+
+Can do interfaces into repositories.
+
+== GPO Spiral 2 Overview and Discussion ''(Chip Elliot)'' ==
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' We should have a workshop for people involved in building and running
+testbeds and infrastructure and send some recommendations to NSF explaining
+what is needed for research infrastructure. 
+
+'''Chip Elliot''' There is a clear disconnect. They like the idea of infrastructure, but
+don't like the cost.
+
+GPO to put Shib/InCommon info from Docushare onto wiki for convenience of GENI projects investigating it.  Harry could do this (also overlaps with Ketly).
+
+Paul said the last NSF nets call included a one-page supplemental about how the research would be done in GENI.